Alienation or ainokea?

After reading in the news about all the unhappy campers out there, I assumed that alienation among the national populace was greater than ever.

Not so, according to the Harris Alienation Index, which has been measuring the mood of Americans since 1966.

The current Alienation Index stands at 52 under the Obama administration, down from 58 at the end of the George W. Bush administration. People register as less alienated than in all the years of the Clinton, George H.W. Bush and Reagan presidencies.

The index started out at 29 the first year the nation’s temperature was taken in 1966 under the Johnson administration, and shot up into the high 50’s during the Watergate years under Richard Nixon. The highest ever recorded was 67 in 1995 under Clinton, who had t down to 55 when he left office.

The index is built around agreement or disagreement with statements such as “the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer,”  ” the people running the country don’t really care what happens to you,” and “what you think doesn’t count very much anymore.”

Harris says the index doesn’t seem driven by the economy or political mood as much as how people feel about those in power separate from their policies.

The least educated are among the most alienated and the most educated among the least alienated. Men are slightly less alienated than women and alienation among African Americans is down to 49 under our first black president compared to 71 at the end of the Bush administration.

It’s too bad there aren’t state-by-state breakdowns; it would be interesting to compare alienation in Hawai’i to the rest of the country. I’ve always wondered of our national low voter turnout, for instance, represents alienation or just plain old apathy.

I look at alienation of a different kind in my column in today’s Star-Advertiser, “Religious intolerance is still strongly expressed in U.S.”

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27 Comments on “Alienation or ainokea?”

  1. Scott Goold Says:

    Aloha ~
    As a designer of questionnaires for survey research projects, I can report that the Alienation Index correlates HIGHLY with one’s personal levels of efficacy.

    This explains why the least educated, women, and in general, minorities would register higher alienation scores. Having an African American president appears to have created hope in the African American community, as evidenced by the significantly lower index ratings.

    In theory, we would expect to find a more optimistic attitude among Blacks, “If he can, I can!” It would be interesting to see if this occurs for both African American men and women. Michelle Obama is a highly empowered role model as well.

    The correlation between alienation and efficacy also explains why the current economic situation or political mood isn’t reflected in the scores.

    Do you believe you can or believe you can’t? This really is the question …

    A*L*O*H*A

    p.s. How about Lingle’s political flip-flop? She joined 41 governors in February demanding extra Medicaid help. Now that Congress has acted wisely and responsibly, she plays politics by joining other Republicans in assailing our teachers, first responders and basic health care services for low-income and disabled residents.

    Classy, Lingle … really classy! NOT!!!

  2. Capitol -ist/WassupDoc Says:

    When I first read your e-mail alert about five minutes after staggering out of bed and before my first sip of coffee, I thought you’d said Alien Nation.

    Why is it that the neo-cons, teapartytypes, religious NONOs, and the NIMBYs are so pessimistic, disaffected and disaffiliated whereas many of us – not all – who are at the other end of the political & social spectrum who often are the ones discriminated against & economically thwarted- yet we still look through our rose-colored spectacles at our half-full glasses & raise them high as we shout BANZAI!!!

  3. Scott Goold Says:

    Aloha Capitol -ist/WassupDoc ~
    Your comments this morning do not add up … you may want to check the caffeine levels in your coffee. LOL

    Yet let’s focus on an edited portion of your statement: Why is it that the neo-cons, teapartytypes are so pessimistic, disaffected and disaffiliated?

    It is simply because they are sore losers and Greedy Bastards!

    As we’re all well-read and involved in current issues, how often do you hear a neo-con or teabagger say, relative to taxation:

    Why should I give up my hard earned money to some freeloader who doesn’t want to work?

    First, this is a straw man tactic. Most of our taxes go to worthwhile projects. There was waste in Reagan’s programs; there was waste in Clinton’s. Human endeavor of any flavor is less than perfect.

    Yet a sizable portion of our collective revenue goes to the disabled and infirmed. In addition we’ve lost some 10 million jobs due to the 2007-08 crash. Hard working people have been unemployed for record number of weeks and are begging for jobs. Compassionate Conservatives, who demanded the policies that led to the crash, say, TOO BAD! YOUR FAULT!

    Second, consider what our country would look like today if ALL of us (particularly our Founders, parents and grandparents) had similar attitudes:

    Why should I put my life on the line, risk loss of blood or limb, for some freeloader back home who doesn’t want to fight?

    How does one equate giving up a percentage of one’s income to sacrificing a life in service to the country? How many disabled vets today would forgo 90% of their wages to taxation in order to have their legs, arms or eye sight returned?

    The people you have listed are overcome with GREED. They selfishly demand it all. They want others to provide the security, roads and infrastructure so they can make millions. They do not value community connections. They are rigid ego-ists who wrongly claim they “made it on their own.”

    Most of these selfish types were “born on third base but boast today that they had hit a triple.”

    It takes a tremendous amount of blood, as well as capital and financial sacrifice to build a great nation. Our success has allowed the selfishness and spoiled immaturity of a significant number to run rampant.

    We need to get back to the values that made this nation both a superpower and respected world leader:

    Ask not what this country can do for you; ask what you can do for this country!

    A*L*O*H*A

  4. David Shapiro Says:

    @ScottG Please make your points without the name-calling, I.e., “sore losers and Greedy Bastards!” Mahalo.

  5. Michael Says:

    Is one talking about Unions?

    Aliens that come with Ainokea attitudes.
    Money rules.

  6. Kolea Says:

    Scott,

    I think your “greedy bastards” comment is not helpful, partly because you lump together “neocons” and “teapartytypes”, as though they have common motivations.

    The “Tea Party” movement arises out of legitimate frustrations, widely held by many Americans, even if those frustrations are directed towards the wrong targets. Most Americans do not see taxes going towards programs which serve their needs. They aslo feel “overtaxed.” The two feelings reinforce each other. If people saw their tax dollars resulting in good schools, well-maintained streets and parks, an intelligent foreign policy which actually HELPS improve conditions overseas and contributes to REAL American interests, they would probably be willing to bear the burden.

    If the Democrats are going to defuse the Tea Party movement, they need to recognize the validity of many of the impulses behind it. Hear the concerns and fashion an explanation of our current crises which points to a way forward. The lack of an alternative vision from the Dems leaves the field open to manipulation of these sentiments by the insurance industry, the fossil fuel people and the other corporations who are providing a lot of the financing and professional expertise in support of these “grassroot” movements.

  7. Wayne Says:

    Studying alienation is useful in assessing the effectiveness of our country’s collective short term memory. My prediction is that alienation index will go higher as banks loosen their grip on lending again. Does that sound weird?Follow this for a bit. The middle class was established because banks allowed working class individuals to purchase the suburban dream and fulfilling that dream made people happy until young men got drafted to go to war. So as confidence in banking has to improve (or collapse) and pull out from abroad is inevitable… Alienation index will go up without anything improving at home.
    A second point I think needs to be made, carefully, is religious “tolerance.” Unfortunately, this nation has decided to use the word tolerance when they should be using the word ignorance. (My appeal is that those with religous conviction and those that have no religious conviction establish the reality that anti-theists are making policy to extinguish religious freedom.)
    I would gladly share time in public venues with people of other realities. I would tolerate keiki using public resources like all that paper they waste, to learn about prophets and religious leaders and American/Hawaiian historical people.
    I’ve run on and gotta go… Aloha

  8. Scott Goold Says:

    Aloha Kolea ~
    Thank you for your comments. While many things you say are good points, I do not agree with your assessment of TEA fanatics.

    First, taxes are historically low so what is their complaint? Recent statistics show they are lower today than for nearly 60 years.
    SOURCE

    Our Top Marginal Federal Tax Rate of 35% is historically low as well (Reagan/GHW Bush let it fall to 28% before increasing it). Capital gains taxes are also historically low.

    Second, TEA fanatics claim they want to LOWER TAXES. Really???

    OK, who doesn’t? I would like to freeload on my state and country as well. We ALL would like to avoid both death and taxes.

    More responsible civic players recognize a drop in taxes must generally accompany a decrease in services. This is where Reagan, GHW Bush and GW Bush failed. They cut taxes to appease their base but knew they couldn’t slash services if they wanted to retain power.

    Thus, the right coined the term, Compassionate Conservatism, to cover their policies of borrow and spending.

    Let’s talk schools. We have great schools in Hawai’i and across the nation. Perfect? Of course not …

    Any kid can walk into a public school in America and get a phenomenal education – if s/he wants; if the parents want. If one gives 100% effort, they will get an excellent education. Stop kidding yourself that our keiki are giving their all. I’ve been a public school teacher for too long.

    The problem is Americans put in a dime and expect perfection. Last year Hawai’i’s per student public funding was about $10,500; Punahou costs around $18,000. The private sector can’t do TOP QUALITY for $11K; why do we believe public schools can when they MUST accept ALL students. If a student doesn’t behave at Punahou, they’re out. Public schools don’t have this luxury and thus administrators and teachers spend a significant amount of time trying to bribe students to participate.

    You want the BEST schools in the world – then we need to pay the price. Nobody disputes that Punahou is a world class school.

    This goes for every public program in America (outside the military). Our roads are great – for what we’re willing to pay; our parks and public amenities are likewise great for what we are willing to pay.

    We don’t have the BEST public services in the world; we have the BEST public services for what we are willing to pay.

    Now, the military is a different cat. No spending held back here. We have the best troops in the world and they have the best technology and gear (outside of the need to up-armor Humvees during GW Bush’s initial war effort – that was criminal!)

    You have been intimidated by the TEA movement; so have many progressives. I do not apologize for public services. In fact we need more. We need additional inspectors, we need more health services, we need more law enforcement … many services for the masses are collapsing. This decreases our quality of life.

    TEA fanatics are financed by the MOST RICH. They don’t want or need public services. They can afford the BEST of the BEST. Why should they settle for public compromises?

    I wrote yesterday about the Rules of Democracy. The party out of power is acting like Sore L*SERS. They are not cooperating in good faith. They are resolute to play politics, as did Lingle on Medicaid funding, with our lives.

    It’s simple: if Obama succeeds – they lose – because Democrats will have done what Republicans failed to do.

    Thus, to preserve their own jobs, they must work to ensure Obama and Democrats fail. This isn’t responsible leadership. You call it what you want; I have my adjectives.

    Voters need to wake up in this country. I remember GW Bush in the 2000 campaign promising to RETURN the government surplus to the people. “Who best knows how to spend your hard earned money,” Bush baited. He earned votes – by buying them with the promise of future money. And, he left us with some $7 TRILLION additional in national debt.

    By the way, I would use the terms again if needed. In your August 9th post, you wrote, “Something I would welcome, so long as the GOP were not dominated by loons and meanspirited rightists.”

    Loons and meanspirited rightists :: sore loser and greedy bastards

    I’m not name calling; neither are you. We are faced with hypocritical fanatics and selfish opponents and there’s nothing wrong with calling attention to the farce. Yet I don’t do this in hiding … my name is linked proudly to my comments.

    A*L*O*H*A

  9. Kolea Says:

    Scott,

    I am not “intimidated by the TEA movement.” You should direct that comment to the Oabama administration, who, when faced with rightwing and/or corporate opposition, capitulates without putting up a fight. The examples are too numerous, with the firing of Shirley Sherrod being only the latest example.

    I do not dispute the GENERAL validity of your facts regarding the level of taxes borne by Americans. You have seen me disputing a lot of the rightwing talking points on taxes in these pages. What I think you are missing, is that low and middle income people are being squeezed by their low wages, salaries, small business incomes, and not seeing an strong organized effort to help them fight for better incomes, succumbs to the pseudo-populist arguments of the right.

    There is a great deal of power in populist sentiment, but the Democrats have abandoned that arena in favor of the “latte-sipping, Volvo-driving,” “enlightened” centrism of the Obama (and Clinton) crowd. Meanwhile, Rahm Emanuel is lining up campaign contributions and placing corporate friendly congresscritters on strategicly placed committees, serving the interests of the campaign contributors.

    Which MAY result in an Obama reelection, even the Democrats holding onto a slight margin in the House. But which increases the “alienation index” and leaves the field open to manipulation by those corporate interests currently playing the Tea Party crowd for fools.

    Since you like data, you might want to reflect back on the data I have often cited. When Hawaii state and local taxes are combined, the lowest quintile of income earners pay about 12% of their gross income in taxes, while the richest 2% pay about 6%. This after 50 years of Democratic control of our legislature. How can that REALITY not alienate voters and make them available for harvesting by Republican operatives?

    Poor and working people may not be “overtaxed” relative to European standards. Or compared to historical levels of taxation. But they ARE relative to the wealthy folks in this state. And when the schools, parks and streets are under-maintained because the Dems refuse to finance these services properly, it is hard to win appreciation of the voters. If public agencies delivered quality services, I believe taxpayers would be willing to support the taxes necessary to do so. Right now, more taxes strike most people as a waste of money they’d rather spend on their own personal needs and priorities.

  10. Scott Goold Says:

    Aloha Kolea ~
    You ARE intimidated by TEA fanatics … because you’re giving up on your own. Obama is NOT the problem. He is doing exactly what he promised:

    1) reach across the isle to heal America
    2) downsize our presence in Iraq
    3) upgrade our effort in Afghanistan
    4) seek health insurance reform
    5) not raise taxes on 95% of the population

    Look how easily you fall prey to the Sherrod issue. We have the first African American president in a nation torn by racial strife. Obama is a good man who is sensitive to the many challenges an African American faces in this highest of office. He works overtime to ensure he does not give the impression he is somehow favorable to Blacks over White. Think of the pressure on him! Yet why shouldn’t he favor Blacks? Isn’t it time for them to get some serious attention? Yet Obama knows the nation must take “baby steps.”

    In this environment, a meanspirited rightist selectively edits a beautiful and heart-warming example of how a racist matured and changed. He turns this poetry into filth … yet YOU fault Obama. You probably don’t even know the creep’s name. He’s the problem, not Obama or his administration!

    There is no dirt on Obama over this. Justice was served. He reacted as is reasonable in this tense situation. He then corrected the actions of his administration. He was thoughtful, graceful and prudent. Yet you heap criticism on him.

    Progressives must toughen up. We suffered through EIGHT terrible years – starting almost immediately (August 5, 2001) when Bush ignored a warning that UBL planned to attack our nation.

    Had a Democrat done this he would have been impeached – and rightly so! Not a Republican … we just got excuses and accepted them!

    The right stood by their flawed candidate because they TAKE power. They do not criticize their own. Bush destroyed the Republican party – they know this now. They stand on the verge of extinction due to Bush and their flawed ideology. So what do they do?

    Obama sucks! Democrats are socialists! Sponsor a TEA – Taxed Enough Already – movement!

    By the way, if you would like an excellent summary of our tax situation, please see my website:
    Classwar in America

    Democrats wilt … they cower … they run for cover!

    What progressives must do is PUSH HARDER. Returning to Republican ideology and leadership is not the answer in this difficult time – THEY ARE THE REASON we are in this mess.

    This is a center-left nation:

    1) 70% of Americans want to preserve the environment, not oil companies.
    2) 70% of Americans want Social Security, Medicare and safety nets
    3) 70% of Americans do not want us in foreign wars
    4) 70% of Americans support tax increases on the MOST RICH
    5) 70% of Americans support a woman’s right to choose
    6) 70% of Americans believe they should be paid better at work

    YET $$$$$$ dominate our political system. I don’t run for office because the money rests with the 5%-10% of society. One must give up their core values to run.

    You blame local Democrats for problems. Let me explain how it works. A true progressive candidate will be targeted by national conservatives. They will spend millions to remove the candidate from the voter roles. Progressives on the other hand will not get behind progressive candidates. We’re not that disciplined or focused (or politically astute). Thus, candidates who want to remain in the game moderate their message; they move to the center-right if they want to play.

    Although I showed above that 70% of Americans lean left – conservatives never quit.

    Take abortion. Each day, each hour, the conservative right Taleban in America works to chip away at a woman’s right to control her body. Do you see progressives advancing new legislation daily or yearly to enlarge these rights?

    Every day, conservatives talk about lowering taxes and reducing regulation. They have their own shows on TV: CNBC Kudlow Report, Glenn Beck, Hannity, O’Reilly, Rush … they own talk radio. Fox News is unashamed to announce today they are the Republican mouthpiece. Yet they will claim each day that media has a LIBERAL bias.

    Progressives have, on the other hand, on their side … NOBODY!!!

    In sum … progressives DO NOT know how to win. They fold and give up too easily. We elected Obama correctly to move our nation to the middle. This 2010 mid-term election should be about moving us further to the left. Obama isn’t everything we wanted. But he was a GREAT first step. In our flawed criticism of Obama (because he is not progressive enough), we play into the hands of conservatives. They use YOUR comments “How is that change going for you?” to help elect candidates from the right.

    If progressives acted like Republicans, we would increase our House, Senate and gubernatorial seats. We would strengthen the forces that create a strong middle class. And, that my friend, is greater distribution of wealth – or as the right has pejoratively labeled – socialistic policies.

    We would demand more unions – yet look how unions are lambasted on these pages. If you want higher wages, you have two options:

    1) get on your hands and knees and beg your employer to give you a raise, or
    2) organize and fight! Create a union and demand your fair share of profits!

    We have neither the courage nor fortitude to fight for our families. I can’t say that about Republicans. They don’t quit! For this I respect them …

    Well, I don’t quit either. Yet to progressives I’m annoying and to conservatives I’m a danger they need to discredit. They won’t debate policy with me – instead they’ll simply criticize the adjectives I use and hope I go away.

    A*L*O*H*A

  11. David Shapiro Says:

    My $.02 is that the ability of folks like Kolea to recognize legitimate frustration from the other guy’s shoes and try to point a different way forward is anything but cowering intimidation. Exclamation points never solved a problem or won an argument.

  12. ccpp Says:

    Seems some posters realizes Obama and ‘clinger-ons’ like Hanabusa are going down in flames big time and in desperation is starting to heavily criticize Lingle, Republicans, Djou, Tea party, etc. calling them racist, back-stabbers, ‘party of no’, etc. hoping in some way to sway public opinion back to Obama and the Democrats.

    Obama was supposed to bring this nation ‘together’ but in actuality has further divided this nation among racial lines and further eroded it’s economic well being. Too many examples to cite such as Obama, without getting the facts, going off his teleprompter and stating the Caucasian Cambridge cop ‘acted stupidly’ when he was just doing his job in arresting the university prof Gates who happened to be Black. Or having Attorney General Holder give a pass to the Black panther members who were filmed trying to intimidate Caucasian voters in the last Presidential election and NOT having Obama or his administration speak out against the same black panther who publicly said Blacks need to “kill cracker babies”. Or the constant bailouts that will cost US taxpayers close to a TRILLION dollars and provide little or no long term economic benefit; just the opposite effect of creating serious economic problems for the US in the very near future. Or the handling of the Gulf oil spill which has becomes Obama’s Katrina.

    No, the Republicans have not conspired to make Obama fail in terms of the economy or race relations; he is doing all that by himself.

  13. Kolea Says:

    Scoot,

    you wrote you “annoy” progressives. What annoys this “progressive” most about your comments is your inability to look at the Obama administration objectively. And how, when I criticize him, you accuse me of giving comfort to the enemy. It that attitude which actually helps the rightwing by suppressing honest debate among progressives.

    You believe Obama acted appropriately when his administration fired Shirley Sherrod without even giving her a chance to explain her statetment but instead relying on the Breitbart video? Ridiculous!

    OK, maybe that was a small mistake, an isolated event. Er, no! Look at how the responded when the same “meanspirited rightist selectively edited” the video of the visits to the ACORN offices. Same folding, the same capitulation, the same cowardly abandonment of hardworking, progressive heroes. Or take their abandonment of Van Jones when he was red-baited by the same Glenn Beck/Limbaugh/Fox News Axis of bigotry.

    Moving away from personnel and towards policy, they took the same approach on every major piece of legislation. They fashion in advance what they think SHOULD be legislation acceptable to this idealized “bi-partisan consensus,” and this becomes their opening bargaining position. Then, surprise, the Republicans (and Blue Dog Dems) demand even more concessions, so they give in. Everytime the GOP, the corporations, or the conservative corporate Dems demand something, they give in.

    And the dimension of this you REFUSE to recognize, is the role of White House Chief of Staff Rahm Emanuel in all this. He is busy recruiting and promoting pro-corporate, “Blue Dog” and “New Democratic” candidates, handpicked in order to secure large corporate donations from industries with a strong interest in what legislation passes in DC. When those DLC/BLue Dog Dems win, he gets them appointed to exactly the committees responsible for those issues their sponsors have the strongest interest.

    In the House battle for “healthcare reform,” it was Rahm’s congresscritters on the Finance Committee who played a major role in removing most of what was progressive in that bill.

    Because you refuse to examine the actual mechanisms whereby the Obama administration serves the interests of the large corporations, you are forced to rely upon fuzzy sentimental arguments on his behalf and on chastizing his progressive critics for giving comfort to the enemy.

    Obama will only take progressives seriously if we demand things from him. One of the arguments used to win progressive support for him during the primaries was that he was capable of being an “FDR” type of figure, with the argument that we had to create a social movement capable of forcing him to rise to the historical possibilities of the moment.

    When you tell us we have to “sftu” when we disagree with Obama (a tip to Dave on that one), you are advising us to disarm people’s critical abilities to understand how politics in DC actually works. I get in trouble all the time for criticizing Democratic elected officials, but I think I have a responsibility to telling the truth as best I see it. I will sometimes pull my punches, but I will not spout touchy-feely nonsense about how power operates in this country.

    Dave’s use of an “alienation index” is a useful approach. A related index, which reinforces the same message but with perhaps a bit more utility for those of us who care about election strategy, measures the “enthusiasm gap,” between Democratic voters and Republicans. I am sure you are aware of it? The Democratic voters are MUCH less enthused about voting in the mid-term elections than GOP voters. From your comments here, I guess you would say that is because voters are whiners or have been suckers for rightwing propaganda. Here’s an alternate explanation, which I think is more useful feedback for the White House than your apologetics. It is not that the voters are especially stupid or mis-informed. It is that they voted for Obama as a “transformational figure” in US politics, someone who they thought would not be bogged down by the special interest politics and dominance of the lobbyists.

    Once elected, he turned to exactly the special interests who have dominated Washington for decades. The Larry Summers/Robert Rubin cabal is one that SHOULD affect your sentiment, but the reality is that in industry after industry, they have aligned themselves with corporate interests. Obama apologists have an explanation for this. It is “realism.” It is “realistic” to work out a compromise with the insurance industry, with Big Pharma, with the “natural gas” and fossil fuel industries, with BP!!!

    Meanwhile, global warming gets even worse, the BP oil spill creates what is probably the worst environmental pollution crisis in US history, the rich continue to get richer, the middle class continues to be in crisis, especailly as their life savings have evaporated and foreclosures continue, the wars in the Middle East and Central Asia get worse, not better. And the American people are giving up on Obama, because he seems incapable of standing up for our interests. “The Republicans are even worse” is NOT an argument capable of engaging much voter enthusiasm.

    My response to that situation is to call upon Democrats to shake off their sentimentalism, take an objective assessment of the various crises and lay out OUR views on the proper path forward. If Obama comes with us and those we are able to organize, fine. If not, he will not get much support from progressives. We are warning him about the risks of continuing on his centrist path. I think that is our duty and I am not placing my “loyalty” to him over my responsibility to provide an honest assessment of our situation.

    But maybe you agree with Rahm Emanuel when he called people like me “retards.”

  14. Kolea Says:

    ccpp,

    You posting only demonstrates you watch Fox News. It does not provide any other useful information.

    The GOP Caucuses in both the House and the Senate have repeatedly made statements about trying to block the Obama administration from being able to claim legislative victories.

    Obama’s comments about the Cambridge Police Departments behavior may have been ill-advised, but I think reasonable people can disagree whether the policeman behaved “stupidly” in arresting a black University professor for breaking into his own house.

    And your use of the antics of a microscopic group of eccentric black activists, the so-called New Black Panther Party, to try to discredit the administration just shows how distorted your perceptions are about the scope of the serious problems facing this country. Though you might be forgiven, as a Fox News viewer, for concluding that “angry black people” are the greatest threat facing this country. After all look at their EXCELLENT work exposing the “racism” of Shirley Sherrod and the “illegal” activities of ACORN (heh!).

    The Republican opposition to Obama has long ago left the realm of reasonable debate. The John Birch Society was regarded as kooks by most Republicans when I was growing up. TYoday, kooks of that sort seem to dominate GOP debate. And Scott is correct that no president in recent years has faced as dedicated and as dishonest a press as that currently represented by Fox News, railing for 24 hours a day against Obama, spreading every half-truth and lie they find convenient. I cannot tell whether they believe what they say or if they are simply opportunistic liars in the fashion of Joseph Goebbels, working to inflame their base with whatever means might work.

    My folks were mildly active Republicans. They would not recognize today’s GOP.

  15. Scott Goold Says:

    Aloha David ~
    And, there’s where we differ … the ability of folks like Kolea to recognize legitimate frustration.

    TEA fanaticism is not “legitimate frustration” – it is instead illegitimate frustration.

    In 2000 this nation held about $5 TRILLION in debt. It is now some $13.5T.

    TEA fanatics want to talk tax frustration? Then pay what is owed first. And, don’t tell me we have it tough until our heroic boys and girls come home from war. We’re borrowing for those adventures as we speak. They sacrifice their lives while TEA fanatics want to bring down American society over nickels and dimes! I know some adjectives for that type of selfish behavior.

    A nation cannot run up debt with creditors and then say, “Sorry! Can’t pay what I owe.” In the real world they bust your kneecaps. In the civilized one must declare bankruptcy.

    TEA fanatics wish America to declare bankruptcy. No more taxation – cut services – we owe creditors nothing. This isn’t legitimate policy, it’s selfish lunacy.

    So why is this an alleged movement? Because the MOST RICH fueled a POPULIST position to motivate ground troops to carry their water for them. In our current situation Obama pledged during the campaign to return to the Clinton tax rates for the top 5%; if they, by themselves, claimed this to UNFAIR, it would fall on deaf and unsympathetic ears.

    Thus, the rich manipulate middle class voters by energizing powerful FOX News to create a soapbox for loyal activists. Their networks echo and magnify the message. Other media outlets follow. In the race for eyeballs, drama leads over facts – if it bleeds it leads. TEA activism is profitable drama and nobody checks reality in this world.

    Now, Kolea falls prey and suggests TEA fanatics have credibility – that Democrats must hear and respond to these powerful voices. They should be labeled what they are, but you don’t like my adjectives. Essentially they are traitors, as they wish to collapse the nation.

    The second objective of TEA fanaticism is to point blame at government in general. “Government is bad because it unfairly taxes us … it’s wasteful … they’re incapable,” TEAs echo. Yet BP caused the Gulf Disaster – and government is spending billions to help solve the problem. Wall Street financial institutions collapsed the economy. GM management destroyed the auto industry.

    Taxes aren’t our problem. They’re 60 years low. Anemic wage and salary growth is why we take home less each year after inflation. Medical costs are exploding relative to tax rates. If you feel taxed enough already, take it out on your health insurance company. How come these same TEA fanatics aren’t demonstrating outside Kaiser Permanente?

    Got DUPED by Big Business and Big Money (again)?

    Now, if anyone wants to talk about programs … fine, that’s the function of democracy. What program do you want? What program do you want to cut? Yet claiming we are TAXED ENOUGH ALREADY is not legitimate – especially when THE PEOPLE have made promises. Kolea is a leader and should act like one.

    A*L*O*H*A

  16. ccpp Says:

    Kolea:
    Yes, I do watch Fox News and other online media but I am not the only one. In your reference to Shirley Sherrod, it was the White House that fired her BEFORE Fox News has shown the clip of her talking, submitted by Breitbart. In fact in Sherrod’s own words, she publicly reported that she was fired because the White House was afraid her clip of her talking about racism would be shown on Glenn Beck, which he did NOT publicly air!!

    Seems you and Goold defend Obama, yet your are trying to subtly or not so subtly get Goold to stop personally attacking posters who are against Obama or for the Republican party cause it looks, and is probably accurate, that Democrats and Obama supporters are in desperation mode; which they are.

    I have no problem with you, Goold or anyone else defending Obama, but I and others who are NOT racist NOR have real loyalty to either the Democratic, Republican or Tea or whatever party, will be making our OWN decision on whether or not we think Obama is good for this country and deserves a 2nd term. That and whether or not Djou or Hanabusa should go to Washington DC to represent Hawaii

  17. shaftalley Says:

    while i was reading about some of the goings on in regard to the selection of a nominee for chief occupier of the state supreme court/law enforcement/industrial complex,i recalled that the washington post came out with some articles a few weeks back in july exposing how US big gov’t.response to 9/11 had little to do with security of the american people and much to do with power and money.”law enforcement” and “security agencies” in our state and federal government has expanded beyond anything that anyone expected.and of course the politicians justified it all on grounds of national security.the article didn’t get much coverage.no outrage or investigations,etc.our government is operating above the law.has been since at least FDR administration.the justice department is enabling this scam.we allowed it to happen.brothers and sister:your government doesn’t care who the president is,which political party is the majority in congress.and they couldn’t care less who the new chief justice in hawaii is going to be.because our judicial industry is working lockstep with the STATE.and there are well connected people in gov’t. and outside of gov’t.wants in on the piece of this action.lot’s of money,power and prestige.i will never pledge allegiance to this government.or to this country for allowing it to happen.

  18. ccpp Says:

    PS:

    Kolea:

    Regarding the black panther voter intimidation case, I don’t think you, your friends, or your family would consider such voter intimidation just “antics” or an “eccentric” group if you yourself went to a voting station on Oahu or the neighbor islands and some person of a different ethnicity from you blocked your path from the doors of the voting center and held a night stick in a menacing fashion, using a ethnic slur to describe your race, to “{so and so} go home”.

  19. Capitol -ist/WassupDoc Says:

    WELL!! Isn’t This Special!!!!!

    I’ve known Kolea for umpty zillion years and have no problem having him sit on the Left Hand Side.

    Scott and Kolea are really not that far apart on the core issues. It’s the How Do We Get Things Done Around Here chasm that splits them apart.

    I remember watching stories on PBS last year on the Town Hall meetings and hearing people scream and yell at their Congressional delegation.

    These angy folks could not get to The Powers That Be that had done them in so they went after their elected officials for failing to rein in the people who had destroyed and, at best, severely damaged their financial security.

    However, what we’re seeing today is a whole different type of anger – at government in general. Do away with Medicaid, public education, environmental controls, social services – and let the private sector step up and provide these services – assuming, of course, that one can pay for them. The government that is least is the best.

    Meanwhile we prog-libs are off in the corner getting angry with each other rather than working together to take on the real cause of our disaffection and alienation.

  20. Kolea Says:

    ccpp,

    Hard to believe you would characterize my position as “defending Obama.” Did you totally ignore my statements about Rahm Emanuel and how voters are feeling betrayed that they elected Obama for “transformational change” but instead got an administration in bed with the exact corporate lobbyist Candidate Obama promised would have less influence?

    As for the Fox coverage of the Sherrod case, Bill O’reilly and other Fox News people played the tape repeatedly and called for her to be fired as “a racist” repeatedly. It was only after she was fired that they reversed their spin to say she had been “railroaded.” One exception: Fox host Shephard Smith refused to use the Brietbart video on his show, saying the website had a history of being unreliable and untrustworthy. All other Fox shows ran it and, to his credit, he criticised them for it ON AIR.

    I don’t know you enough to call you racist, but Fox News clearly is. They have a clear age4nda of trying to portray black people and Hispanic immigrants as a a threat to “normal Americans.”

    That is a conscious racist strategy for political ends. It is despicable.

    The local Fox affiliate has been fgood at resisting that sort of “news coverage.” But recently, the national headquarters of Fox sent a communication to its stations calling on them to move towards a strong advocacy position in their newscasting. Let’s hope that is resisted locally by the professional journalists at the station. Fortunately, there is still a legacy which persists in local newscasting left over from the glory days of KGMB News under Bob Sevey. I HOPE that persists enough in the hearts of local newscasters. Time will tell.

  21. zzzzzing Says:

    @Kolea
    “They have a clear age[4]nda of trying to portray black people and Hispanic immigrants as a a threat to “normal Americans.””

    Why do you say this, rather than how it is? Isn’t it a fact that the New Black Panthers, who threatened voters and called for the “killing babies of crackahs” and the illegal aliens (not Hispanic immigrants!) who march for “Che” etc. are portraying & presenting themselves as a threat to all Americans, regardless of race or color? Why is that seen as a so-called ‘racist agenda’ when factually that is what is going on? Explain please?

  22. Michael Says:

    My Way
    by Frank Sinatra

    “And now the end is near
    And so I face the final curtain
    My friend I’ll say it clear
    I’ll state my case of which I’m certain

    I’ve lived a life that’s full
    I traveled each and every highway
    And more, much more than this
    I did it my way

    Regrets I’ve had a few
    But then again too few to mention
    I did what I had to do
    And saw it through without exemption

    I planned each charted course
    Each careful step along the byway
    And more, much more than this
    I did it my way

    Yes there were times I’m sure you knew
    When I bit off more than I could chew
    But through it all when there was doubt
    I ate it up and spit it out, I faced it all
    And I stood tall and did it my way

    I’ve loved, I’ve laughed and cried
    I’ve had my fill, my share of losing
    And now as tears subside
    I find it all so amusing

    To think I did all that
    And may I say not in a shy way
    Oh no, oh no, not me
    I did it my way

    For what is a man what has he got
    If not himself then he has not
    To say the things he truly feels
    And not the words of one who kneels
    The record shows I took the blows
    And did it my way

    Yes it was my way”

    Has to be my way.
    You wrong.
    No other way but my way,
    you still wrong.
    Nobody is right but me.

    Wonder who this person is?

  23. Kolea Says:

    @zzzzzing,

    Not sure if you are sincere in making this comment or if you are just pulling my leg.

    The “New Black Panther Party” is a tiny, microscopic group of politically and emotionally unstable people. They have glommed onto the name of the Panthers as a means to build up their credibility within the Black community (unsuccessfully) and to help them “make big body” against what they call ‘crackers.” They are NOT a significant force and are only receiving “face time” on Fox News because they can be used for anotehr installment in the ongoing FOX strategy of arousing fear and anger among (mostly) middle and working class whites so they will vote GOP. This is the “Southern Strategy explcitly laid out by Kevin Phillips during Nixon’s 1968 campaign and has been followed by Lee Atwater, Karl Rove and other sinister GOP strategists ever since.

    I said Fox was hostile to “Hispanic immigrants.” Apparently you disagreed with that characterization in favor of “illegal aliens.” That would be an improvement IF it were true. Let’s use your own words to see how this plays out. You wrote:

    “…the illegal aliens …who march for “Che” etc. are portraying & presenting themselves as a threat to all Americans, regardless of race or color”

    Really? You used the word “threat.” Do you feel “threatened” by the marches in Arizona against the recent laws? Why do you assume all the marchers were “illegal aliens”? What I saw in news footage was massive crowds of mostly Hispanic people. I cannot easily differentiate between US citizens of Hispanic descent, legal Hispanic immigrants and illegal Hispanic immigrants. But apparently you can make that determination by watching video footage? No wonder you have no problem with laws which require that people “who appear to be illegal immigrants” should be forced to produce documentation to prove they are here legally.

    And these thousands of people were “marching for Che”? Really? Was that an official stance of the coalitions organizing the demonstrations or did you (maybe) happen to see a sign or a T-Shirt with the famous Che portrait on it?

    I saw a guy on the beach about a month ago with a Che tattoo on his back. Guess he’s a threat to ‘ALL Americans” too?

    You suffer from outlandish, disproportionate fears about the challenges facing this country, in large part because you watch FOX News, which is consciously trying to keep a large section of the American public in a state of stress and fear. The ramblings of a tiny group of black malcontents like the NBPP or an occasional sighting of Che’s icon image. You are being played my friend. And by very powerful, determined and wealthy interests who have NO INTEREST in improving the actual lives of their viewers.

  24. zzzzzing Says:

    re: NBP – yes, they’re small & unstable. so was hitler, and look how many people ended up following his crazy act. you pooh-pooh it like it ain’t no beeg thing- fine. you’re allowed to do that, as I am allowed to see the threat in it.

    no edit feature so yes ‘all’ should have been ‘normal’ – and no, i don’t think all marchers were illegal but they’re the problem, not the hispanic immigrants you say is ‘fox’s agenda,’ as being a threat (oooh there’s that word again) to ‘normal americans.’ people who come to this country & don’t assimilate & actually form alliances against america are a threat to the stability of this country and i have a problem with that, not the people who come & embrace america as their own.

    actually, i’m quite a relaxed & cheerful person – but i do recognize that things are not as they seem in the white-washed MSM – something you appear to embrace & believe is the gawd’s honest truth. fox, cnn, bbc, nyt, msnbc, etc. all have their slants – i peruse them all to get as many sides to a story as possible and process them according to my values & standards of life – as you do. as you think i’m a cowering, fearful fool, i think you have your head in the sand, to put it politely, and are pointing fingers at the wrong people as the bad guys

    from reading your posts, it appears we have different values & standards. you seem secure in your beliefs, so it would be silly of me to challenge them. i just wanted you to explain your position, not give me your mental assessment of my so-called suffering. 🙂

    i’m no scholar, just a simple american with simple values. i’m a social & fiscal conservative and recognize that there are ‘very powerful, determined and wealthy interests who have NO INTEREST in improving the actual lives of their viewers,’ as you say, in pretty much all news organizations… and political parties, for that matter.

    thanks-
    j.

  25. Michael Says:

    Is one being supportive or just following?

    “The record shows I took the blows
    And did it my way”

  26. shaftalley Says:

    the arrogance of these progressive(i.e. authoritarian) elitists dissing others with different points of view is stenchifying.

  27. Michael Says:

    Yes it does smell, doesn’t it?


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